NO: 18 APR 1985 Rotters, Doncaster

The Cassette Converter

Setlist

The Perfect Kiss, Ceremony, Thieves Like Us, We All Stand, Hurt, Chosen Time, Confusion, Subculture, Sunrise, Blue Monday, Temptation

Soundcheck

The Perfect Kiss, Hurt, Chosen Time, Thieves Like Us

The Beloved ware support.  Their set is available here:

Fractured/Image playlist

Sources are two tapes, the first an incomplete recording (only the first five songs, up to Hurt) done by Simon Park, the is second a complete audience recording. A third one, sourced by TJ, has shown up recently as well, with excellent sound quality.

Simon's source sounds very good, the other one has tracks out of sequence and somewhat worse (but still not bad) sound, and the third version easily tops the first two, and seems to have less near audience chatter than the others.

Philip Collins (RIP) says:

"The out of sequence tape came from the desk of someone my brother used to work with and was borrowed long enough to be copied! We had no idea at the time which gig it even was but I did some trading back in about '87 and the person I traded with identified it as Doncaster. Can't give any more details other than that but I think that was the person who taped it..."

The sequence of the tape, by the way, is:

Subculture (8), Sunrise (9), Blue Monday (10), Temptation (11), The Perfect Kiss (1), Ceremony (2), Confusion (7), Thieves Like Us (3), We All Stand (4), Hurt (5), Chosen Time (6).  

As the writeup was based on this tape, I've retained mention of it.

The Perfect Kiss

Guitar plugin, bass drone, and they're off!

Intro on full audience tape starts at the bass drone.

Levels on first bass notes really high, but that's likely a venue PA problem. Punter says something at 1:05 on full audience tape, and somebody else blurts out something at about 1:35.

Punter: "...the new single" (really thick accent) 

(Park tape) Bit of a drop out at 1:30, likely not a tape problem.

Talking at 2:40, one of the punters says something like, "Fuck me, they've now playing fucking pop!". Another says, "Don't mind getting into that one [and a few words I can't make out]" (also Park tape)

Otherwise, a standard version of the tune.

BS: "Thanks very much."

Ceremony is greeted with pleasant shouts. Punter starts talking frantically at the 1:05 mark, even after Barney starts singing. I can't make out any of it! (Park tape)

Levels start out really loud again and go down (full aud tape). The Order cack up the ending by playing the wrong bits at the wrong places. Bernard woos near the end.

Rather than continuing with the next song, the full audience tape skips to Confusion.

About a 10 second gap before the Order start up the next tune, Thieves Like Us. Song number eight on the full audience tape, after "Confusion".

There's an additional guitar line in the intro. This is a very good version, and deserves the rousing applause it receives. It's more clearly heard in the full tape than in the Park tape. The bass sounds odd here, like during the '85 JP/AU/NZ dates.  

Barney tunes up a bit.

We All Stand

Song number nine on the full audience tape.

Intro guitar line sounds like a bit like the opening they used for Ultraviolence 02 DEC 83 Bournemouth.

At 2:25, somebody blurts out. (Park tape)

BS: "Thank you very much."

More indiscriminate shouting out.

Hurt

The tenth song on the jumbled version of the audience tape.

Hooky's intro is somewhat off, the synths are even more off. The Park tape cuts out after 1:15, alas, but it appears in full on the other one, and turns out to be an interesting version. Neat melodica outro.

Chosen Time

The last song on the jumbled tape. Tempo is quite speedy. Sounds like somebody's making smooching noises into the mic right before the start.

Drop out in the left channel at about 0:27 in (jumbled tape). Hooky ends with a bass flourish.

BS: "Thank you very much again."

The next bit is only present on the TJ-sourced tape, since there's likely an edit in the jumbled vesion.

BS: "Pardon. Listen, if you all shout out at once, I can't here. Now, applications, one at a time please. This is the most unruly audience we've ever played to. Which leads us nicely to Confusion. What a way with words now, what a way with words."

About a second of Shellshock can be heard afterwards, but this definitely wasn't from the gig, since that song wasn't debuted until nearly a year later. (jumbled tape) 

Confusion

The full audience tape features this as the seventh tune, which is actually where it should be! However the previous song is "Ceremony".

Subculture

Vocals are pretty quiet in the mix. This is the first track in the full audience tape's sequence. A few feedback squalls and the syndrums threatening to march out the hall. "mic scrape" at 4:20.

Tape edit on TJ version.

BS: "Once again, I can't play this one fast(?)" [reverb obscures what he's saying]"

Hooky then plays the bassline for "Exercise One"!!! 

BS: "...to you. Beats a smoky nightclub(?)"

Sunrise

Second track of jumbled audience tape, consecutive, no edits. Some more shout outs after this

Blue Monday

This is also in sequence with respect to the full audience tape. Lots of chanting along with the machine beats.

Gillian bungles the keyboard line right before Bernard's main vocal.

Good guitar work near the end. Ends in a bass synth loop.

BS: "Thank you, we love you. Bye bye."

Temptation

An edit can be heard between this and the next track on the jumbled tape version. Knocking sounds four seconds in. Fans call out for "Temptation", and what do you know? They get their wish.

Right channel dropout at about 1:56, click at about 2:00, back to normal at 2:31. (21:13)

Unknown audience tape has a brief edit, and then continues with TPK.

Versions (there are a lot)

AUD #1 RJ.  The version used for both Fractured/Image and The Cassette Converter.

AUD #2 TBB - Pansonic RQJ6 w/built-in mics.  tock:  "This is from the master loaned to me by a mate. It may have been traded over the years but here it is in all its glory. Tape to PC/Normalised/Split.  Stereo RQJ6 had adjacent L/R mics. "        

AUD #3 PL - Sanyo w/built-in mics. PL: "i have a master tape of the Doncaster gig as well...it was recorded by me on the very first sony stereo walkman(forgot the model number)." Tape garble at about 5:23 - 5:24 of TLU, and at 1:25 of WAS. Mic bump after Confusion. Edit between BM and Temptation. 

From Renko: "Hello everyone who d/l this gig, i recorded it upstairs at doncaster rotters right next to the sound desk, on a Sanyo walkman stereo tape recorder, i still have the cassette, but this source has had the pitch speed corrected by a very clever fellow from a new order fan site...thank you. I was hoping for the same great night i had in Birmingham the previous week at the tower ballroom) getting to the front was a major event which i luckily avoided..it ended in a big fight which seemed have a effect on the whole gig. i remember seeing Kirk/Mallinder from Cabaret Voltaire at the bar just before the band came on.  The main memories are that this tour was one of the bands greatest ever as they had such great new material to share with everyone.thanks to michael for sharing this with you all and i hope you all enjoy it....many thanks..phil"

AUD #4 SP - Technics w/built-in mics. Incomplete, taped through part of Hurt (5th track). Recording is mono.

AUD #5 Lazlo - Saisho P50 w/borrowed Phillps mics.  "This is a Lazlo Production" and the pre-gig with Hendrix' Fire (only present on Dec's and one other) establish this is a unique recording. Flip point is between Confusion and Sub-culture.

AUD #6 TB - Aiwa HS-F1 w/ external stereo mics. AUD #7 Dec Hickey - Sony WM-D6C. Unlike almost all of his other recordings, the first track of this (TPK) did circulate.

AUD #8 (was thought to be different, but has been coorelated with AUD #1, reserved for TJ master) AUD #9 for the soundcheck version, whom we don't know was taped it.

Other reported recordists which may correspond with the other: Jon Marsh (of the Beloved, who opened) / Simon Simpson (Sony Walkman) / GG (Sony WM-D6)

Soundcheck tape